Very much impressed with chapter 4 and the ‘first contours of liberation theology in the Book of Mormon’.

But behold, I, Nephi, will show unto you that the tender mercies of the Lord are over all those whom he hath chosen, because of their faith, to make them mighty even unto the power of deliverance.

I find both LiberalMormon.net and Latter Day Satyagraha strong advocates for the power of deliverance. Deliverance or liberation from captivity in many ways: theological, ecclesiastical, political, cultural and sexual. But also deliverance from our fears and insecurities, by insisting as an individual on being an active latter day saint according to the dictates of our own conscience.

Sometimes we experience the Church as too confined, but we’re so conditioned to being there that we forget that the door is open to come and go as we please: it’s not the Church but us ourselves who are the problem! Sometimes we frown upon those who live a ‘cafeteria religion’ whereas I think that’s the only way to go. I live in Las Vegas with its bountiful buffets, and only a fool would try to eat it all!  We ‘pick and choose’ the items that we think are both nutritious and delicious for our lives and families, and don’t want to over eat. Inactivity in the Church perhaps is caused when folks try to eat it all, too much and too fast, only to retreat with a belly ache! They don’t want to come back to that restaurant!

I also liked: gospel principles are peace principles!

and is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints living up to its creed, the doctrine of Jesus Christ, of being a nonviolent church? Does it truly represent an alternative to the dominant world discourse of capitalism in which consumers are encouraged to seek riches and to sell Christ for gold and silver?

In the study chapter, I mentioned the prophetic admonition to denounce everything that is incompatible with the establishment of the Kingdom of God. How often do we denounce injustices, inequality and violent behavior?

I like what was said in the commentary “God is calling for a prophetic people” by Community of Christ (RLDS) President-Prophet Stephen Veazey who suggests that our understanding of what it means to be a prophetic people is limited to charismatic utterances and predicting the future with a warning. He adds that additional qualities of a prophetic people would be, “to seeing beyond current realities [and] to lift up a vision for an alternative future in harmony with God’s will. It also involves choosing to live in the future that God wills despite the resistance of popular culture. A prophetic community is a “countercultural” community that gives tangible witness to what God is doing to redeem creation”.

Any comments on what it means to be a prophetic people? In what way can we all become prophets? Is it desirable? What do we, members of the LDS movement, understand by the idea of being a prophet?

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mormongandhi 6:27 pm on November 1, 2009

And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp. And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them. And Moses said unto him,

Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them! (numbers 11)

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ABBA music video

Dave Latimer
Submitted on 2009/11/02 at 10:12am

A great example of how modern music can help us keep the dream alive!

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Dave Latimer
Submitted on 2009/11/03 at 1:25pm

Here are some other great musical dreams:

John Denver: Last night I had the strangest dream

John Lennon’s: Imagine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLw

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mormongandhi
Submitted on 2009/11/03 at 4:01pm

Thanks Dave. Imagine!

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mormongandhi
Submitted on 2009/11/05 at 8:59am

We need to get the Mormon Tabernacle Choir up here as well with: Climb every mountain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgq9zSLnmTQ

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thefaithfuldissident
Submitted on 2009/11/04 at 7:25pm

Mormongandhi, are you familiar with Maire Brennan, Irish singer, sister of Enya? One of her best songs is called “Peacemaker,” where she and her young son sing/recite the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi in Irish Gaelic and English. Unfortunately I can’t find it on Youtube, but you can hear sound clips on Amazon. It’s a stunning track, here are the lyrics:

A Thiarna treoaigh muid
Sólas a thabhairt
Nach é a cuartu
Mar bheireann tu maithiunas
Gheobhaidh tu maithiunas
A Thiarna treoaigh muid

(Lord grant that I may seek
Rather to comfort than to be comforted
It is forgiving that one is forgiven
Lord guide us)

Make me a channel of Your peace

Gur bheir gra a thabhairt
Na é a fhail
Agus nuair a gheobhaimid bas
Muscailte muid i mbeatha siorai

Where there is doubt I bring faith

Make me a channel of Your peace

Mar bheireann tu gra
Gheobhaid tu gra
Agus nuair a gheobhaimid bas
Muscailte muid i mbeatha siorai

Where there is hatred I bring love

A Thiarna treoaigh muid

Based on the reading in the first study chapter, are there any issues that you would like to raise? I think the whole issue of Nephi killing Laban is a heavy one, and interestingly the presentation of a very complex dilemma of human violence and the question on how this particular passage of scripture is used in the LDS church today.

One comment I have made earlier on this is that the High Priest Kaifas used the same logic and the same words to argue for the crucifixion of Jesus – and perhaps in that lies the ambivalence of the sacred towards violence. In both cases, the life of a person is sacrificed in order to save a nation or nations “from dwindling in disbelief”. Without the brass-plates, would we have the book of mormon today? Without the killing of Jesus and his resurrection, would we have christianity today? Without the assassination of Martin Luther King what would have happened? What might have happened?

The religious authorities in power in a particular time and place might be disfavorable to a certain interpretation of their religious traditions and make attempts to silence those voices – because those voices rebel against normal conventions. I wonder what logic was used when Joseph Smith was killed. Who was thinking that it was better for one man to die than…, who knows what people were thinking at the time? Was it better for Laban to die? What about Nephi’s reaction to the orders of the Spirit? His gut reaction was exactly contrary to what the Spirit was teaching…

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Maria Cruz on November 3, 2009

I read: “While the extremist sees physical violence against his enemies as a sacred duty”, the peacemaker strives to sublimate violence, resisting efforts to legitimate it on religious grounds.”
Question: If ’sublimate’ means ‘to make acceptable’, then how is that person really a peacemaker?

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mormongandhi 5:03 pm on November 3, 2009

Hei Maria and welcome to PFF!

I see it more from a psychology point of view as such: sublimate can mean “to divert the energy associated with an unacceptable impulse or drive (i.e. violence) into a personally and socially acceptable activity (i.e. nonviolence)”. The examples used on the extremist side is that using physical violence against your enemies is interpreted as a sacred duty, while the peacemaker strives to divert the energy that derives from an unjust or violent situation into a nonviolent and sometimes creative response – and that violence itself must not be justified through a religious interpretation of his or her sacred duty.

I like what was said in the commentary “God is calling for a prophetic people” by Community of Christ (RLDS) President-Prophet Stephen Veazey who suggests that our understanding of what it means to be a prophetic people is limited to charismatic utterances and predicting the future with a warning. He adds that additional qualities of a prophetic people would be, “to seeing beyond current realities [and] to lift up a vision for an alternative future in harmony with God’s will. It also involves choosing to live in the future that God wills despite the resistance of popular culture. A prophetic community is a “countercultural” community that gives tangible witness to what God is doing to redeem creation”.

Any comments on what it means to be a prophetic people? In what way can we all become prophets? Is it desirable? What do we, members of the LDS movement, understand by the idea of being a prophet?